Author: Bon Giovanni Publisher: The NEURAL SURFER Publication date: May 1997
E-mail David Christopher Lane directly at firstname.lastname@example.org
I want to go back to the home base now.
From: BON GIOVANNI
In DEFENSE OF SAI BABA Hello, The subject line was the title of one of the most posted articles about Sathya Sai Baba, until I showed the author was posting fiction. >thanks for your note. And yes I would be happy to include your letter >in the reply section. Thank you David. As indicated in our previous correspondence, I have now linked your current SCUMBAG article at http://people.delphi.com/bongiovanni/carp.htm, maintaining your earlier article on Hislop as well. >But one curious question: Why are there so many (more than ten that >I have heard from quite different sources) reports of Sai Baba >masturbating young kids. I have a long letter from a 16 year old >who describes Sai's "rubbing" his dick. As to "why" you hear many reports, I cannot say why, since I have no idea why-- but I hope you agree there are also reports that Elvis was recently sighted in a McDonald's. Why are there so many? If ten folks wrote online about seeing the King eat a burger with fries last Tuesday, would you post it online as a fact? would you check the details in each post? Would you contact that McDonald's manager so as to confirm the claim? Too, if a 16 year old boy then heard you believed the story, and so wrote you a long letter describing how he was masturbated by Elvis in the parking lot of that fast food store, saying he could still smell the fries on Elvis's breath--would you give him credence? At any rate, I do not know "why" any story arises, but I would hope all men of good will would confirm any story before accepting it as factual, and so certainly would _first_ verify any letter-writer as an actual person with actual experience in actual locales, before asserting on a webpage the tales are factual. That said, did you confirm the specifics of the claims about Sathya Sai Baba which you now broadcast as fact on your webpage? >Now it is fairly obvious to me that these reports are not made up >(too many specific details, too many people who don't know each >other, etc.), but I am curious on why Sai--who is allegedly Enlightened-- >would indulge in such behavior..... I've read your earlier articles and so note how in the past when you made assertions you had shown greater research skills than saying `it is obvious'-- but apparently you have changed your style in order to `expose' Sai Baba. I hope you will however now state the `many specific details, etc'. For now however I admit I have no idea why Sai does anything that he does, much less why he would do what you assert he does. (Apparently you feel you do *know* exactly what Sai does and also know exactly why Sai does it). How do you know? Tal Brooke seems to be one of your sources about the `manipulation of genitals'. That Tal took his autobiography LORD OF THE AIR seriously is one thing, but that you believed his report without checking with others present at the same time said, suggests to me that in this matter you do prefer assumption to research. To offer another perspective, I hope you will soon read GOOD CHANCES by Howard Levin, (available at the Toronto site linked on my webpage) since it shows another view of those days than the one Tal claims as gospel. As for the "many reports" you have since received... like yourself, I have been active online for many years, and so also received many reports in private email and in public fora. Unlike you however I did not spread unsubstantiated claims as if fact. Instead I ever urged folks to examine all claims directly. Like you I too have received many articles from various persons who claimed this and that experience with Sai Baba. Some were complaints, some were braggings. I investigated every item. You say you've received specifics. Good! Will you share those specifics? If so, I will ask the author specifically where the event happened, via a detailed description, so as to compare it to my own knowledge of the location. (Most of the time, the answer shows if the author has or has not enhanced a story, told a fact, or just created a fiction). That scrutiny over specifics debunked in one week the `confession of sex with Sai Baba', a treatise that made the rounds three times in '93 in multiple Usenet fora. When it surfaced again in '94 at soc.culture.indian I was able to contact that author by telephone. In his article he had claimed to have been a student in one of Sai's schools, yet when I asked for specifics about the school's location, it was found he did not recall the layout of the campus he claimed to have attended for three years, nor the name of the railroad station a block away that connected the school to the city, nor would he name any of the professors on staff, even though he had praised the staff in the article as exceptionally honorable men! Asking for specifics as to location however is only the first step. After I determine the person really has knowledge of the location he or she claims was the venue, I ask for the date the experience occurred, then check to see where Sai was on that day. He is after all not invisible, and his daily location over the last fity-six years is a matter of record. Deteriming his location is only the second step. If the place and time prove factual, I then ask the claimant for specifics as to who besides the claimant knew of the meeting time and place, since all visitors are seen by many other persons. You knew that, right? No doubt you have confirmed directly that any person gaining access to Sai during daylight hours is seen by all the invited guests who wait in queue just outside his main door, and any visitors who then get inside are also then seen up-close by sevadals (visiting Indian guests who rotate security duties fortnightly with volunteers from other states) inside his residence. Visitors after hours however can access Sai only by passing first through security, then by sevadals , then all visitors must pass through the line of college boys stationed along the hallway leading to Sai's private room, and then must finally pass by `the stairway boys' (elder students who have gotten all A's in their last exams, who are allowed to attend the direct stairway, sole entry to Sai's private quarters, at all hours in hopes of seeing him even for a moment). If any visitor sees Sai, day or night, he or she would surely recall some or all of that process and so have seen those other people present en route, and so could describe that passage with some detail. You see, no one `just walks in.' Did you ask your correspondents for such details? Did they supply them? Yes or no, you are certainly welcome to deduce whatever you wish, however, if you make your `givens' as available to scrutiny as your online conclusions, all can then see if you are logical, or if you are spreading fictions as Premanand often does. Like him you have spread the rumour that videos exist proving Sai a fraud, as if you are aware of the specifics. (Will you name those videos? have you seen them? Did you know they are not raw newsfilm, but are edited? Did you confirm how they came into the hands of those who claim they are `proof of fraud'?) I ask because the gossip you post online is not new to me, nor new to me are letter-writers who claim this and that. What is new however is that in the past you took some care to show your research when you made claims, but now you speak of Sai with what looks like only assumption for your basis, but you present it too as if equally proven fact. For whatever reason you did that, I do hope you have confirmed, or will confirm, the stories you now disseminate online, and offer that data in full. David, please tell me how you confirmed the specifics in the stories you allude to? Did you confirm time and place and description? Did your correspondents detail Sai's location, attitude, clothing, demeanour, actions? Did any or all use the same phrase you used : "masturbated"? If so, did any report ejaculation? Did any report that Sai was breathing lustfully? Did any say he forced them into compliance? If not, then why do _you_ call it masturbation or abuse? After all, when a doctor examines the testicles, it is not masturbation nor abuse, is it? Now you may say, "but Sai is not a doctor and so ought not be examining anything", in which case I would remind you that he is a doctor of the spiritual realm, in my view, and has in fact healed more than one person via physical manipulation of various kinds. Should you then announce that physical manipulation has nothing to do with the spiritual realm, I would reply that you might look into hatha yoga and Catholic mass, hoping you might then reconsider your conclusion. Still, if all or any of those who wrote you have called it masturbation and/or abuse, then did any or all describe themselves as passionate? did they describe Sai as passionate? Do they all agree in any respects as to what it was like, how much time was involved, where it was, what was said, how it ended, what happened later, etc? You say Sai abuses boys on a regular basis and you announce he wants that kept a secret. Since you have given no specifics, I wonder if your use of the words `masturbation' and `abuse' and `secret' may more aptly describe your assumption, than any actual fact. If I err, then please tell on what basis do you deduce? Do you have confirmed reports that Sai told whoever wrote you, that what transpired between Sai and themselves is by his insistance SHHHH A SECRET? If so, do all reports agree in all respects? If not, how is it you announce them all as if proven fact? I am sorry I went on so long, but your few paragraphs online do suggest you have more assumptions going on behind the scenes, more even than I have outlined here. Although I repeated myself a bit, I hope you give your reply at least as much thought as I have given your online article. At any rate, thanks for considering my viewpoint. *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* In every course you take, have the LORD in mind: He will see that your paths are smooth. Proverbs 3:6 *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* *+* http://people.delphi.com/bongiovanni/moral.htm PS: Thanks for offering McWilliam's book despite the current lawyer flap; I admire your decision to keep it available online.
E-mail The Neural Surfer directly at email@example.com
I want to go back to the home base now.