Author: David Christopher Lane and Daniel Caldwell Publisher: The NEURAL SURFER Publication date: June 1997
E-mail David Christopher Lane directly at email@example.com
I want to go back to the home base now.
DANIEL CALDWELL COMMENTS: My ultimate suggestion in my last post was to focus on Gurinder Singh. Please reread that post towards the end. Babaji is not "present"; Charan Singh is not "present"; but Gurinder Singh is alive and well and the current head of the largest Radhasoami group in the world. He is the "sucessor" to possibly two of the most well-known gurus in India in modern times. DAVID LANE COMMENTS: I think, Daniel, you are forgetting how this debate started. You brought up Babaji and I responded. Now you think Babaji may not exist or that he can't be tested the same way. Wasn't that precisely my point? That this cat doesn't exist or that the evidence for him is not convincing? Are we now in agreement, since you now want to switch gurus? Can we stick to a topic and "resolve" it? DANIEL CALDWELL WRITES: What claims has he made? And if he claims that the basis of Radhasoami is scientific in nature; then is he willing to be tested? David, with your contacts, etc., TRY to arrange such a "test"? Or *at the very least* an interview with him in which you question and propose various things. An interview to also be published complete and unedited. Ask the hard questions. Be as upfront with him as you have been with the Eckists. DAVID LANE REPLIES: Daniel, do you read what I write or do you just skip over it? Read what I say in THE GURU HAS NO TURBAN or THE KIRPAL STATISTIC. I have already asked a number of "hard" questions (even when Charan Singh was alive). I wrote the UNKNOWING SAGE despite the fact that the Dera asked me NOT to. Here's an answer for you: I personally DON'T think the shabd yoga gurus I have met are all-knowing, nor do I think that they have "proven" anything of a paranormal nature. I have talked about this issue at length in a whole series of articles on my website. As for "testing" the guru, I am all for it. Since you are the one who has a problem with my skepticism (remember, Dan, you were the one who asked the questions about my new paradigm), then by all means go ahead and write a letter to Gurinder Singh asking him to be tested. As for me doing it, I have already done what you haven't: I went to India 8 times; I met the various shabd yoga gurus; I asked them the very questions you now want to propose. I have come away with a clear sense that they do NOT know. I have had long conversations with Darshan Singh, Thakar Singh, Ajaib Singh, Faqir Chand, Pratap Singh, etc. I have engaged each in critically minded questions. I have seen them interact with large congregations and the like. And I have been impressed--on a human level--with some of them. Did they ever demonstrate univocal evidence of the trans-rational? Nope. Did they demonstrate some nice and impressive human traits, such as kindness, punctuality, and helpfulness. Most certainly. By all means, Daniel, change topics (it used to be on Babaji and his existence) and go ask Gurinder Singh to be tested. Tell us what he says. DANIEL CALDWELL WRITES: Paul Twitchell is dead, Harold Klemp probably wouldn't want to be tested. Babaji is the "elusive" avatar. Your Guru is dead. But Gurinder Singh is ALIVEl. . . .probably in India. Here is YOUR chance to make your case to Gurinder Singh. Here is HIS chance to reply and either decline or accept some sort of test. If Gurinder Singh declines to accede to any sort of test, then can we blame Babaji for declining? For all I know Babaji doesn't even exist. DAVID LANE REPLIES: You write, "For all I know, Babaji doesn't even exist." I couldn't have summed up my position any better. Thanks, Daniel, for conceding what I thought was obvious. We could both be proven wrong, of course, but that is why I proposed the tests in the first place. Blaming Babaji for declining? How can we do that, if you think "Babaji doesn't even exist?" I don't think you are getting the point here in your lame attempt to switch gurus. Let me spell it out to you again: I am not trying to PROVE the existence of a miracle. I think the gurus are unknowing in that sense, including my own. You got hot and bothered because I "doubted" Babaji's existence (you do too, given your previous statement, by the way) and wanted more "proof" or "evidence" for his existence. Now you want to switch gurus and see what Gurinder Singh will undergo. That's your dilemma, not mine. I don't think he knows. Therefore, I suggest that you write him and ask for a test, since it seems to be of interest to you. I have already done a number of "tests" both in India and elsewhere which show conclusively that the guru does NOT know in any God-like sense. Indeed, as I have repeatedly pointed out: the gurus in shabd yoga make MISS-takes a number of times. So much for the claim of omniscience. Please read my criticism in the GURU has NO TURBAN. It was written precisely with my guru and his lineage in mind, NOT Eckankar. DANIEL CALDWELL WRITES: I simply have no informed opinion on the subject. I do believe (based on the evidence) that Gurinder Singh exists and if he has made claims (explicit or implicit) then here is a great opportunity . . . .for you, David. DAVID LANE REPLIES: No, Daniel, it is a great opportunity for YOU. I have already been to India 8 times; I have already asked the hard questions. I have already gotten a pretty good answer. They DON'T know, not in the God-like sense that is claimed in the literature. That is why, Daniel, I have always been a great fan of Faqir Chand. He seems to be on to a secret that many gurus--for whatever reasons--do NOT want to reveal. DANIEL WRITES: Sidenote: If Gurinder Singh doesn't feel he is qualified to be the guru, if he has "doubts" about guruship, etc., then possibly he needs to have the supreme honesty and courage to renounce his "position" much as Krishnamurti dismayed the Theosophists and renounced his "position". Let Gurinder Singh be even more courageous and honest than Faqir Chand!! DAVID LANE REPLIES: Yes, Daniel, go ahead and write him a letter stating what you just did. His answer may be quite intriguing. As for me, I have already done it. Good luck....... DANIEL CALDWELL WRITES: Next plane to India. . . .leaving on Runway No. 9!! DAVID LANE REPLIES: Yes, by all means catch it. Maybe you can see Babaji there and ask him why he doesn't exist.
E-mail The Neural Surfer directly at firstname.lastname@example.org
I want to go back to the home base now.